Comments on: Naïve observations of an itinerant communicant http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/ "When things speed up hierarchy disappears and global theater sets in." --Marshall McLuhan Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:46:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England)http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-446 Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England) Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:39:25 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-446 Further updates from the <i>Union-Tribune</i>, September 29, 2005: <a href="http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050929/news_1c29relbrief.html" rel="nofollow">La Jolla Presbyterian Church marks centennial with range of festivities</a>: "<a href="http://www.ljpc.org/" rel="nofollow">La Jolla Presbyterian</a> celebrates its centennial in October – Oct. 1, 1905 is its birth date – with a series of services and ceremonies." ... "Meanwhile, on Sept. 11, Murray launched <a href="http://www.ljcommunitychurch.org/" rel="nofollow">La Jolla Community Church</a>, which holds services at Torrey Pines Hilton and includes some breakaway members of La Jolla Presbyterian." Further updates from the Union-Tribune, September 29, 2005: La Jolla Presbyterian Church marks centennial with range of festivities: “La Jolla Presbyterian celebrates its centennial in October – Oct. 1, 1905 is its birth date – with a series of services and ceremonies.” … “Meanwhile, on Sept. 11, Murray launched La Jolla Community Church, which holds services at Torrey Pines Hilton and includes some breakaway members of La Jolla Presbyterian.”

]]> By: Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England)http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-273 Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England) Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:32:47 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-273 The <i>San Diego Union-Tribune</i> reported what happened in La Jolla: <a href="http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050224/news_1c24murray.html" rel="nofollow">Divided presbytery ousts La Jolla pastor</a>. The San Diego Union-Tribune reported what happened in La Jolla: Divided presbytery ousts La Jolla pastor.

]]> By: Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England)http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-97 Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England) Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:51:33 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-97 Here is a small Orthodox chapel I saw in Athens this September. Note the <a href="http://www.fotw.net/flags/gr-ortho.html">flag of the Greek Orthodox Church</a> with the double-headed eagle. <img src='http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/wp-content/orthodox.jpg' alt='Here is a small Orthodox chapel I saw in Athens this September. Note the flag of the Greek Orthodox Church with the double-headed eagle.' /> Here is a small Orthodox chapel I saw in Athens this September. Note the flag of the Greek Orthodox Church with the double-headed eagle.

Here is a small Orthodox chapel I saw in Athens this September. Note the flag of the Greek Orthodox Church with the double-headed eagle.

]]> By: Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England)http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-39 Dr Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England) Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:54:59 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-39 From Herman Dooyeweerd's <i>A New Critique of Theoretical Thought</i>, Volume III, page 558 (<a href="http://www.mellenpress.com/mellenpress.cfm?mvb=3&fc=4&mvp=31&pc=12">ISBN 0-7734-8711-5</a>): <blockquote>... the aesthetic function should not <i>obtrude</i> at the expense of the transcendental leading function of the institutional Church-community. Such an obtrusion disturbs the <i>internal</i> aesthetical harmony in the objective structure of the church-building. And the internal aesthetical harmony is also disturbed when objects of an explicit political structure are placed in the church-building where they do not belong, <i>e.g.</i>, coat of arms, flags, standards, <i>etc.</i> ¶ The "<i>Garnisonskirche</i>" in Potsdam is one of the most horrible examples of disharmony in this respect. Another example is Westminster Abbey in London, which partly functions as a national museum.</blockquote> From Herman Dooyeweerd’s A New Critique of Theoretical Thought, Volume III, page 558 (ISBN 0-7734-8711-5):
… the aesthetic function should not obtrude at the expense of the transcendental leading function of the institutional Church-community. Such an obtrusion disturbs the internal aesthetical harmony in the objective structure of the church-building. And the internal aesthetical harmony is also disturbed when objects of an explicit political structure are placed in the church-building where they do not belong, e.g., coat of arms, flags, standards, etc. ¶ The “Garnisonskirche” in Potsdam is one of the most horrible examples of disharmony in this respect. Another example is Westminster Abbey in London, which partly functions as a national museum.

]]> By: Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England)http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-14 Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England) Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:22:57 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-14 Interesting: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja_California_peninsula">Wikipedia</a> has this claim: 'The Spanish colony of California is divided into Alta (``high") and Baja (``low") California at the line separating the Franciscan missions in the north from the Dominican missions in the south', and gave the year 1804. Interesting: Wikipedia has this claim: ‘The Spanish colony of California is divided into Alta (“high”) and Baja (“low”) California at the line separating the Franciscan missions in the north from the Dominican missions in the south’, and gave the year 1804.

]]> By: Adam Villanihttp://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-13 Adam Villani Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:07:20 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-13 This is interesting... Upper and Lower California were separate political entities at least as far back as 1776: http://www.statoids.com/umx.html (Scroll down to "change history.") This is interesting… Upper and Lower California were separate political entities at least as far back as 1776:

http://www.statoids.com/umx.html

(Scroll down to “change history.”)

]]> By: Adam Villanihttp://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-12 Adam Villani Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:56:28 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-12 Hitting all of the Missions is a great way to see California and learn about history. It's interesting that the size of the towns that built up around the missions is totally variable--- Mission Soledad, as the name implies, in the middle of nowhere, and San Antonio is even more remote, being on a military base. Several others have pretty small towns around them. Santa Ines, bizarrely, is right in the middle of the Danish-themed tourist town Solvang. Others are in everything from suburbs to big cities. A look at the list indicates that I've at least seen 19 of them from a passing car, all except San Jose (in Fremont) and San Carlos Borromeo (in Carmel). I've attended Mass at 4 of them (San Luis Rey, San Gabriel, San Buenaventura, and Santa Cruz), and at most of the others I've at least walked around on the grounds. Hitting all of the Missions is a great way to see California and learn about history. It’s interesting that the size of the towns that built up around the missions is totally variable— Mission Soledad, as the name implies, in the middle of nowhere, and San Antonio is even more remote, being on a military base. Several others have pretty small towns around them. Santa Ines, bizarrely, is right in the middle of the Danish-themed tourist town Solvang. Others are in everything from suburbs to big cities.

A look at the list indicates that I’ve at least seen 19 of them from a passing car, all except San Jose (in Fremont) and San Carlos Borromeo (in Carmel). I’ve attended Mass at 4 of them (San Luis Rey, San Gabriel, San Buenaventura, and Santa Cruz), and at most of the others I’ve at least walked around on the grounds.

]]> By: Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England)http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-9 Kaihsu Tai (Oxford, England) Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:52:54 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-9 Thank you for the clarification. I have visited at least 1 mission: that in San Diego. I think we should also note that 'California' included also what is now the 2 Mexican states of Baja California. By the way, I have photographs for all the churches mentioned if anybody is interested. Thank you for the clarification. I have visited at least 1 mission: that in San Diego. I think we should also note that ‘California’ included also what is now the 2 Mexican states of Baja California.

By the way, I have photographs for all the churches mentioned if anybody is interested.

]]> By: Adam Villanihttp://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/29/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/comment-page-1/#comment-7 Adam Villani Tue, 05 Apr 2005 19:52:11 +0000 http://www.PieAndCoffee.org/2005/03/16/naive-observations-of-an-itinerant-communicant/#comment-7 I should note that the Plaza Church in downtown L.A. isn't technically one of the California Missions. I'm not really sure how it got "Mission" tacked onto its name; it's the church for the old Pueblo de Los Angeles and may have been an auxiliary mission from San Gabriel or something. The Spanish colonized California with a three-pronged approach of pueblos, missions, and presidios, or "grain, God, and guns." The Missions are the most famous; there are like 21 of them. Presidios were established at San Francisco, Monterey, Santa Barbara, and San Diego. Pueblos were established at San Jose, Branciforte (Santa Cruz), and Los Angeles. Aha! -- This website lists the old Plaza Church in Los Angeles as an asistencia to Mission San Gabriel, as I had suspected: http://www.ca-missions.org/contact.html#pre I should note that the Plaza Church in downtown L.A. isn’t technically one of the California Missions. I’m not really sure how it got “Mission” tacked onto its name; it’s the church for the old Pueblo de Los Angeles and may have been an auxiliary mission from San Gabriel or something. The Spanish colonized California with a three-pronged approach of pueblos, missions, and presidios, or “grain, God, and guns.” The Missions are the most famous; there are like 21 of them. Presidios were established at San Francisco, Monterey, Santa Barbara, and San Diego. Pueblos were established at San Jose, Branciforte (Santa Cruz), and Los Angeles.

Aha! — This website lists the old Plaza Church in Los Angeles as an asistencia to Mission San Gabriel, as I had suspected:
http://www.ca-missions.org/contact.html#pre

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