Mike: What do you think about life?

Bruce: Sometimes it can be pretty tough.

M: What do you think about Starbucks?

B: The coffee is strong.

M: Some people talk about it being over-roasted. Do you judge it over-roasted?

B: Nah, probably not.

M: We like to go to little independent coffee houses, with sort of a bohemian vibe, and one of the risks is that occasionally you get someone working the counter who seem stunned that you’re asking them to sell you coffee. Here, it’s like buying a pack of gum at the convenience store. No problem.

B: Yeah.

M: I used to protest Starbucks all the time with Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping in New York. There was a time when I’d visited Starbucks many more times to protest it than to get coffee. But at this point in my life, I feel like Starbucks is not a major evil. I got bigger fish to fry. Bigger fish than the Starbucks mermaid, to extend the metaphor.

B: Yeah.

Tiny espresso in a paper cup. This bothers Mike.

M: You and I know people who work at Starbucks. We hear a lot of stories. I’m always surprised to walk by Starbucks and see that it’s not just a burning pile of metal and glass. From the stories, it always seems like this place is in chaos. But it doesn’t look that way to a customer.

B: All the stories you hear about Starbucks, you have to ask yourself, is any of this true?

M: Starbucks is rife with myth.

B: At least here you don’t have a bunch of obnoxious people walking by, like at the Dunkin Donuts downtown.

M: The clientele seems less angry at Starbucks than at Dunkin Donuts.

B: Here everybody’s not in such a rush.

M: Any coffee shop, people are going in there jonesing. So I’m not surprised if they’re on edge.

An old cable access TV show with Mike and Bruce on coffee.

B: Most Americans spend $1000 a year on coffee.

M: People love it. Sometimes I drink too much. I kinda like it as a once a week thing.

B: You live in a part of the country where you have to drink a lot of coffee because there’s so much stressful stuff around.

M: Coffee can sometimes help you perk up.

B: Yeah.

M: But then it becomes an addiction. You’re functioning less well without the coffee than you were before.

B: People should eat a good breakfast with enough energy to get them through the day. But people do it backwards. They eat something that makes them tired. And by 2 o’clock….

M: They eat something that drains their energy, then need coffee to replace the energy.

B: They’re not eating high-energy food to get them through the day.

M: What should they be eating?

B: They should be eating high-energy food.

M: What would that be?

B: I have no idea.

M: Any final thoughts on Starbucks?

B: The “Christmas blend” they had last year was pretty awesome.

M: Any final thoughts on coffee?

B: Coffee is like metal. It’s the kind of addiction that doesn’t do you any harm. There’s no rehab for it. Or parole for it.

Bruce: . . . I already was elected.

Pie and Coffee: Elected to what?

B: Elected to make a difference in the world and in people’s lives. And I’ve already succeeded.

P: Let me ask you a question about the Q coffeehouse on Chandler Street.

B: OK, shoot.

P: What do you think of it?

B: For my first time being there, I thought it was pretty good.

P: What was the coffee like?

B: It didn’t stay hot very long.

P: How was the flavor?

B: It was pretty good.

P: Did you have trouble getting it prepared like you wanted it?

B: Ah . . . no, not really.

P: Y’know, I think that place opened when I was out of town, because I remember the week it opened–whoever was doing promotion did a great job as far as I’m concerned. I got 6 e-mails from 6 sources saying Hey, there’s this great new place. More recently, I heard this second wave of opinion, that this place was terrible. And then very recently I’ve heard people say Actually, it’s pretty good. And my experience there was positive.

We saw a show there. What did you think?

B: I thought the first band was pretty good.

P: I Hate Zen Heart.

B: That kid who was singing, he goes, “Ours is the only website you’re gonna find, unless it’s a death metal band.” And I said, “Suppose it was black metal. Let’s hear it for the black metal people!” And everybody just like: “Sheee-yaaaahhh!”

P: There was a huge crowd there, all kinds of people.

B: A famous person showed up.

P: Who was that?

B: Me, myself, and Billy Blue. Everybody there recognized me.

P: I had a woman come up to me after Jacob Berendes played and she said, “Aren’t you on Volcanoboy? I recognize you from your photo.” And she told me who she was. It’s great to meet somebody from the Internet in real life.

The great artist John Guida was there.

Y’know, the Q is taking over some of the cultural responsibilities that the Java Hut once had.

B: I kinda get the same vibe. Would you call I Hate Zen Heart folk or what?

P: Maybe a punk thing. Jacob was doing his . . .

B: Storytelling.

P: Like a bard.

B: I was looking at his amp. He had a Gorilla amp. I haven’t seen those in a dog’s age. I go, “Hey, I didn’t know they let animals in here!” “They let you in here!” “Well I’m the Snow Ghost, my friend!” I was commenting on his amp!

P: I know, I told him that. He knows you weren’t calling him an animal.

B: As long as we can bust each other’s chops and nobody takes it the wrong way.

P: If you had to sum up the Q in one sentence, what would that sentence be?

B: Does anybody need a Q?

But not Barry Switzer.

Pie and Coffee: Are we going to talk about coffee first, or Barry Switzer first?

Mark: Whatever you want. I don’t care.

P: I’m drinking this cup of coffee. This is not the greatest cup of coffee I’ve ever had.

M: Yeah, it’s okay coffee, but it’s not–

Sarah: I’d say it’s solid.

M: I’d say it’s fine. I mean, that’s the thing, it’s perfectly acceptable.

S: Don’t you think it lost some flavor? Because this is a pretty flavorful coffee.

M: Yeah, it tastes a little bland.

P: Weaker than yesterday?

M: It just tastes bland. It doesn’t taste watery.

P: Do you think the water wasn’t hot enough?

M: No, it was plenty hot.

S: Yeah, it was definitely hot enough.

M: I made a cup at my house with better coffee, and it was better.

P: How long have you had the Aeropress?

M: Didn’t you give it to me last year for Christmas?

P: But this is not the regular way you make coffee.

M: I’ve only used it like 5 times.

P: So that’s what I’m saying. You don’t feel the results were amazing.

M: No. The testimonials on the container about how it’s the best cup of coffee ever, either they know a secret to making it better than I do using this machine, by following other directions, or I don’t know. I mean it’s fine. It’s nice if you only have to make 1 cup, cause then you don’t have to mess with the machine, and it’s pretty quick.

P: I often think about that, when I’m only making one cup of coffee for myself when I’m travelling, using somebody’s office or house. I think, Why am I going through all the trouble of firing up this coffee machine.

S: It seems like a lot to carry. Why not a French press?

M: The Aeropress has advantages over the French press. The primary advantage that they claim to have over the French press is A, it doesn’t take as long. Because it’s only supposed to soak for like 10 seconds.

S: Yeah, French press you let it sit for maybe like 5 minutes.

M: And you won’t get grounds in your coffee. French press, you often get grounds in there, depending on the grind of your coffee.

S: No, not necessarily. The thing with the French press is you can have it as dark as you like it.

M: You can do this with this too. You just add more coffee.

S: But it’s a lot of stuff to carry around.

P: Aren’t the French presses usually made out of glass?

M: Yeah, a French press isn’t very portable, because it could break easily.

S: This is plastic, but it has a lot more pieces.

M: It has more pieces, but that’s not a problem. It looks irritating but it’s really not. Like one of those pieces you can get rid of.

P: Do you feel like the coffee that comes out of this is actually bad coffee?

M: No! It makes a perfectly fine cup of coffee. I’m just saying it’s not any better than regular drip coffee.

P: Do we need to talk about Barry Switzer?

M: Not yet, because I haven’t read the article. Basically, if you only have a cup of coffee at a time, or you’re travelling, this coffee maker is worthwhile. If you, like me, always have 2 cups of coffee in the morning, it’s irritating. Because then you have to go make the second one. You have to redo the water, redo everything to make the second cup of coffee. When I’ve made espresso with it, it’s basically as good as espresso machines. It’s not like Italian machine espresso, but like home machine.

S: I had a really good espresso at that Tapas & Tintos place I went to in South Beach. Just FYI.

P: You want to talk about the Golden Girls? Speaking of South Beach. Did the Golden Girls live in South Beach?

S: No, they just lived in Miami.

P: But now you have the entire Golden Girls in DVD.

S: I do. I’m pretty stoked about that.

P: How many seasons were there of that show?

S: Seven.

P: I would have thought there were more, for some reason.

M: There was also “Golden Palace.”

S: Yeah, that was a spinoff show. Seven seasons, but they had a lot of shows back then. So 7 seasons was like…

M: It’s like 22 or 24 episodes a season.

S: I don’t think they make that many shows these days. So that’s like 14 seasons.

P: There’s like hundreds of episodes of the Golden Girls. [180]

S: Yeah.

P: Have you ever thought about why you’re attracted to the show? It’s not really set up for your demographic. [Sarah is by far the youngest person in this conversation.]

S: Well, it’s smart. The writing’s good. It’s funny. It’s about women. I like women. Bea Arthur reminds me of my grandmother, who was very funny and smart.

P: I like Bea Arthur a lot.

S: I grew up watching it, and it’s stuck with me.

P: I think Bea Arthur is a big animal rights person. [Actually, animal welfare.]

S: Well, I know Betty White is.

P: I think Bea Arthur is a big radical. I think she has an FBI file.

S: She could be. The show is pretty progressive. They talk about all sorts of issues. Especially women’s issues that a lot of shows don’t talk about. They don’t deal with like–

P: People having a stroke.

S: Menopause, or losing your sexualness as you get older. And it’s just about older women. I mean how many shows are about old women? It’s progressive in the way they all live together, and they all are a family in that way. “We love men, but we love each other too.”

P: They have a brotherhood of sisterhood, or something.

M: You could just call it sisterhood.

P: You know some people, and I don’t know if this is a misogynist mischaracterization or what, talk about how women seem to have trouble getting along. So I think it’s good to have a show with a role model of long-term friendships.

S: And it’s not always easy for them.

P: They have different personalities.

S: They’re all very different, but they make it work. They have arguments and falling-outs, but they always figure a way to come back together and forgive each other. Like in any relationship.

P: I think it’s kind of genius how Estelle Getty plays the really old one, cause she’s not that old.

S: I think she’s actually younger than everyone else.

P: It’s like when Andy Warhol started wearing that silver wig, when he was in his 20s in New York. Word got back to him that people would say, “That Andy Warhol, he’s so spry.” People thought he was in his 50s! It’s the same thing when Estelle Getty puts on a gray wig. “She’s so feisty for a woman in her 90s!”

M: And then she was in “Stop or My Mom Will Shoot,” right?

S: Yeah.

P: We should point out that our grandfather, who’s in his 90s, left in the middle of this discussion of the Golden Girls. He didn’t care to hear about this.

S: Also what I like about the Golden Girls is that with my grandparents, we could all watch the Golden Girls and enjoy it together.

P: They don’t think it’s a little too racy of a show?

S: No. They love it. They think it’s hilarious. I think it stands the test of time. It ended what, like 12 years ago?

M: It ended in ’91, maybe. [1992]

S: It ended a really long time ago.

M: It’s a shame that “Golden Palace” was no good.

S: You know, how it ends is one of them gets married and moves away. Which, I don’t know if I would have ended it that way . . . .

P: Who gets married? Betty White?

S: No.

P: Rue McClanahan?

S: No. Bea Arthur.

P: What!

S: That actually is the genius part, because she’s always like the ugly one, or the mannish one, the one that doesn’t get dates. But she ends up marrying Leslie Nielson, who is Rue McClanahan’s cousin or something.

P: Wow.

S: At first they hate each other. And then they fall in love.

P: Then she watches some of his films.

S: On the one hand it’s genius to marry off Dorothy, on the other hand it’s kind of sad. Why does it have to be that way?

P: Why is it the end of their friendship?

S: Well it’s not the end of their friendship, but it means that Dorothy’s going to move out, and they’re not going to live together.

P: If I remember right they’re just sort of leeching off her. She has this nice apartment.

S: No, they all live in Blanche Devereaux’s house. But they all pay rent. They all pay for their keep. No one’s freeloading off anyone else.

P: So really this was this seven year period in their senior years where their lives have been disrupted, they came together to form this tight group, and after seven years . . . .

M: Oh, I don’t know if it was diegetic time.

P: Oh, it is.

S: It’s probably more than that . . . .

P: It was kinda like “24.” They kept close tabs on the year-to-year progress.

S: They have a lot of jokes of the times that I sometimes don’t get.

P: Mondale stuff?

S: Just like whatever, which were probably really hilarious at the time but I have no idea what they’re talking about.

M: I think there are Dukakis jokes.

P: Wow.

M: There’s definitely a Bernie Goetz joke.

S: And you know they have that song. That Andrew Gold song.

P: It’s a good song.

S: We looked up the lyrics. There are more lyrics, and the rest of the lyrics aren’t as good.

M: He was really forcing it, to try to flesh out a full song.

S: I have a Golden Girls t-shirt. It says “Stay Golden.” And I was at the Oakland Mall . . . .

M: It has a drawing of all the Golden Girls.

S: I was at the Oakland Mall in Michigan, on 14 Mile and John R, and I was walking by this store, and this guy was like, “Hey, Golden Girls!” He was like all about my shirt. We gave each other high-fives. It was unexpected.

M: It’s a good show. It’s a real good show.

S: There’s hijinx.

M: It’s a show that stands up.

P: I would say that shows with a related setup, like “Friends,” I find have not worn well.

S: People really like “Friends,” but I think it’s got garbage writing. As opposed to the Golden Girls, which has quality writing.

P: Plus, all of the characters on “Friends,” I feel like if I met these characters in real life, I would not like them.

S: I wouldn’t like them either.

P: I like to watch them tear each other apart. Whereas the Golden Girls, if I ran into Sofia, I would think, “This is a good person.”

S: The characters feel a lot more real. They have jobs and actual struggles. They have ex-husbands, and dead husbands, and boyfriends. Money problems.

M: I like that it’s in Miami. You don’t see a lot of shows in Miami besides Golden Girls and “Miami Vice.”

P: Did Don Johnson ever guest on Golden Girls?

M: No, but Burt Reynolds did. We’re showing the episode with Burt Reynolds next semester.

S: Also George Clooney.

P: Wait a minute, back up to Burt Reynolds. You’re showing this in a class you’re teaching?

M: In “Introduction to Media,” we have a unit on television. And one of our screenings is about gender on television, and so we’re going to show the Burt Reynolds episode of the Golden Girls.

S: Mista Burt Reynolds. They love Burt Reynolds. Now I feel like a lot of actors got their early TV appearances on the Golden Girls.

P: Is Burt Reynolds as himself?

S: Yeah, Mista Burt Reynolds. They’re going to like his concert.

P: Concert?

S: Yeah, I think that’s the one where they go to jail, because they stay at this hotel where there’s a prostitute ring, and the cops bust the place and think that they’re old hookers. It’s a really good episode.

M: It shows the Burt Reynolds masculinity aspect, and the old lady prostitute aspect, which is not something you see on television with any kind of regularity. Or at all, ever.

S: I wish that this had stayed around a bit more, but at the very beginning of the Golden Girls, Blanche’s roommate is gay. He’s a gay man.

P: I don’t remember this character.

S: He’s in the pilot episode.

M: Then there’s that lesbian episode.

S: I think Blanche’s brother also ends up being gay. So they deal with a lot of different things. Like homosexuality, racism, ageism, drug abuse.

M: Do they have an abortion episode? Apparently “Maude” had an abortion episode.

P: Yes, “Maude” has a very famous abortion episode.

S: Well there is one episode where Blanche thinks she’s pregnant.

M: There is that.

S: Abortion is brought up. I think that every possible thing that could be brought up, is.

P: I just want to roll it back to “Maude” for a second. Probably the only thing remembered about that show these days is that there was an abortion episode.

M: And Bea Arthur. It was a spinoff of “Mary Tyler Moore?”

P: I think “All in the Family.”

S: “Empty Nest” was a spinoff of the Golden Girls.

P: Who was in “Empty Nest?”

M: Richard Mulligan. And I think David Leisure was in it. And there was a spinoff of “Empty Nest” too, I don’t remember what it was called. [Nurses]

P: How is it that Yakov Smirnoff remains such a powerful force in the culture, but David Leisure has faded away?

M: How does Yakov Smirnoff remain a powerful force?

P: He has a theater in Branson, and do you know about the Internet meme of “Soviet Russia” jokes?

M: No.

P: [Explains the genre.] But the whole David Leisure “He’s Lying” thing . . . do you know what we’re talking about?

S: No.

P: Joe Isuzu. [Explains.] This was an important thing, but it hasn’t survived like the Yakov Smirnoff joke.

M: To say that it was “an important thing” is perhaps to misrepresent it.

P: At the time . . .

M: It was popular.

P: At the time, if you were to say to somebody, which will survive 20 years from now, the Yakov Smirnoff Russia joke, or the David Leisure “He’s Lying,” what would they have said?

M: Neither one! That’s what they would have said.

P: Right!

S: Maybe we should talk about the –

P: 3-D printers at Cranbrook.

M: Barry Switzer being a fan of WVU.

S: We could talk about the Dutch racist Santa.

P: Where is this?

M: In the Netherlands.

S: In the Netherlands, Sinterklaas has “Black Pete.”

P: It’s his sidekick?

S: Slave. It has something to do with the Moors.

Our father: He has black feet?

M: No, “Black Pete.” It’s like his slave.

S: Slave-slash-sidekick.

P: He’s a Buckwheat figure?

M: I think he’s portrayed as a demon.

P: So he’s like his enemy.

S: Sorta.

M: He always has to keep him in check.

P: Because he’s Muslim?

S: A Moor.

P: Black Muslim. Nation of Islam.

M: Sinterklaas and Malcolm X.

S: Down with Sinterklaas!

P: They’re all racists.

S: Sinterklaas–one bad dude.

P: Lemme ask you a question. The other day I was down at a bar in Worcester, and the band was doing soul covers, and I thought of asking them to do Randy Newman. Not “Sail Away,” though, because it might come off as racist. But then they did “Brown Sugar.”

M: Famously racist.

P: You think it’s a racist song? Because you know about Media Studies. The average man might hear that songs and be unsure whether it’s racist, because he doesn’t have academic credentials.

M: Who doesn’t think it’s a racist song? Isn’t that the standard line on it, that it’s a racist song? Just like the standard line on Sinterklaas is that it’s a racist representation of Santa?

P: But if a band in a bar full of white people did something about Black Pete, people would think, “This is an inappropriately anti-black/anti-Muslim statement.”

M: People don’t pay much attention to lyrics. They would have to be really, really overt for people to care.

P: Wait a minute, how much more—

M: Especially Stones lyrics, which you can’t understand.

S: Bust magazine I think had a feature about, “Bad men, we love to hate them,” with classic misogynist songs. “It’s still great music, you want to hate it but can’t.” Like James Brown. You’ve gotta love James Brown, but he’s a jerk.

P: He was kind of a jerk, but he didn’t have lots of racist songs.

S: He beat his wife and had songs about being a man. Same thing about the Rolling Stones. “Under My Thumb.”

M: “Under My Thumb” is the classic misogynist Stones song.

P: What do they think about “Baby Got Back“? I think it’s a song that celebrates curvaceous women.

S: It does.

P: It says, I don’t care about the women in the magazines. People always say these magazines give a negative body image.

S: But not to Sir Mix-a-Lot.

P: Sir Mix-a-Lot is saying to the young women, forget about that stuff.

S: “I like big butts.”

P: If I write an autobiography, it will be called Even White Boys Got to Shout. I decided that a long time ago.

M: Well, what else are we going to talk about?

P: I think it’s time to scrape the bottom of the barrel. Which means it’s Barry Switzer time.

M: The article’s not very interesting, nevermind. We never talked about our responses to Bubble.

P: For our last interview, we talked about the upcoming Steven Soderbergh film “Bubble.” Very innovative, business-wise, released on DVD and cable around the time it came out in the theater.

M: HD-Net.

P: And set at a doll manufacturer where you used to work.

S: Yes.

P: Lee Middleton Creepy Dolls.

S: Well here’s the thing. First of all, I thought Steven Soderbergh was going to make a bunch of these Americana movies, in small towns with non-actors.

M: Supposedly he’s making 6.

S: But I haven’t seen any and I’m a little bit disappointed.

M: I don’t know if maybe he’s making “Ocean’s 13″ so he can fund his video movies.

S: He’s dragging his feet. That’s done! It’s already done! He’s rolling in the big bucks. He produces everything. I’m a little bit disappointed in that Steven Soderbergh.

M: He might do it. You don’t know! He’s coming up with an idea.

S: Well, anyway. Bubble. I need to see it again. But I was a little bit . . .

M: It’s not great.

S: I was a little bit biased, because I had certain expectations from working in the doll factory.

P: Do you feel that he caught the essence of Lee Middleton Dolls?

S: I think he fully caught the essence.

M: As someone who never worked or had been there, I feel like he captured the essence well.

S: I was a little bit mad, but whatever. The acting was perfect. The guy that plays the main character is the quintessential Mid-Ohio Valley male.

P: Really. Even moreso than Robert Mitchum in “Night of the Hunter”?

S: Well, he’s not evil. But if I was gonna have to explain a young man from the Mid-Ohio Valley, West Virginia, Belpre, Marietta, I would be like, “See that guy? How he talks? That’s him.”

M: Laconic.

P: Very flat vowels.

M: Yeah.

S: Close-mouthed.

P: A little mumbly.

S: Very mumbly.

P: A little dry.

S: Probably very nice boy.

P: Kinda whiny.

S: Somewhat nice. Somewhat lethargic.

M: The movie does kinda get going at some point.

P: This area inspires lethargy.

M: The movie inspires lethargy.

S: You know, probably someone that has a lot of potential, but it’s all lost because they’re sucked into the black hole of this horrible, horrible place.

P: Do we need to recap the plot?

S: Sure, there’s a murder.

M: It takes awhile. The opening portion is an extended, “Here’s the Mid-Ohio Valley, nothing’s happening.”

P: Do they have landmarks?

S: Some, but that’s another thing I was a little bit upset about. I don’t think he showed the desperation of this place enough.

M: I don’t know. I think they did a pretty good job.

P: Did they reference Daniel “Buddy” James at all?

M: It shows the desperation, but it’s not overdone. There’s also a certain beauty to it.

S: I want overdone desperation.

M: But then someone gets murdered, and there’s an investigation.

P: It’s not like we’re living in Rwanda.

S: By a real cop.

P: Yes, the actor was actually a policeman, right?

M: The last maybe 25 minutes are really good. And they go to this bar on Market Street that’s next to where the dollar theater used to be. The Bank Shot?

S: Oh, yeah.

P: I don’t know if I’ve been in there.

M: I’ve only been in there once, but it has a special place in my heart. Because once we were going to see “As Good As It Gets” at the dollar theater. It was like me and Doug and Bret and Ben. Bret and Ben went to this bar beforehand, Doug and I just went to the movie. And they came in about halfway into it, and I think they’d been drinking a lot, because they were really loud. Like yelling and trying to find us. The movie theater was packed, and they sat five rows behind us. They kept laughing and yelling during the movie. And that was because of the Bank Shot.

P: So “Bubble” was kind of a bust.

S: Not entirely.

M: Not a bust, but not brilliant.

S: You know what, for what it was, it was perfect.

M: It’s worth watching.

S: You have a bunch of non-actors, doing their thing. I thought it was a good effort.

P: This is Steven Soderbergh. I expect every movie he makes to be a great movie.

M: But they weren’t all great before “Bubble.”

P: What was not good? “Ocean’s 12.”

M: “Ocean’s 12″ is mediocre. “Full-Frontal” is terrible.

S: A lot of impromptu non-actors acting.

P: Goofing around.

S: No, everyone takes it seriously.

P: Maybe he should do all 6 of the films in the Mid-Ohio Valley.

S: I would pay money to see that. I would give up my time and come here to work on it.

P: I think if a good director made 6 feature films about the Mid-Ohio Valley, you could capture the whole thing.

S: I think there’s enough things around here.

P: The next one needs to be at a chemical factory.

S: Blennerhassett Island. Someone needs to make a movie about Blennerhassett Island.

P: You know, the whole Blennerhassett story tends to be hyped a little bit. But the whole phenomenon of that story being the key story of this part of the country, is kinda interesting.

S: And no one knows about it.

P: Did you ever see that musical, “Eden on the River”?

S: No. I would like to have. I don’t think they do it anymore. I think the heyday of Blennerhassett Island is over. Late 80s, early 90s.

P: Merry Christmas.

S: Merry Christmas.

Bruce: I’m Bruce Russell, aka The Snow Ghost, and we’re doing a coffee interview about the new Honey Dew Donuts, formerly a Dunkin Donuts. And my experience was that it’s not like the other Honey Dew Donuts. It’s a small place as opposed to the other ones I’ve gone to. This one wasn’t as busy.

Pie and Coffee: Well, we went there on a Saturday morning. I have to say, I thought it was a pretty comparable experience to Dunkin Donuts, except that I got a positive vibe from the staff.

B: I got the same thing.

P: I always feel about Dunkin Donuts, “Why should I get coffee there?” Seth Godin said that the opposite of Dunkin Donuts was not going out for coffee. Like, Dunkin Donuts is the completely generic experience of going out for coffee. And this place was not completely generic; it had a little bit of flavor to it; it had a little bit of color.

Who would you suggest should go to this Honey Dew Donuts?

B: Anybody. I mean, if anybody wants to try the Honey Dew and experience Honey Dew a few times. But there’s other coffee shops around that are pretty good, like Boston Donuts on Park Avenue.

P: I know you’re a big booster of Boston Donuts. Did you hear that Java Hut is closing?

B: Really?

P: Let the record note that there was stunned silence after I told Bruce that.

Yeah, apparently they staff just found out like on Saturday, just this past weekend. I was there last night, they had sort of a going away open mic-jam-punk-spoken word thing. And I guess it’s going to be closing this weekend.

B: Really?

P: Yeah, it’s a drag.

B: Why are they closing?

P: I think that it’s just a financial thing.

B: Ah.

P: When I lived at the Catholic Worker, Sunday is a day when everyone is just hanging around there, and hanging around with a bunch of people is the last thing I needed to do then, so Sunday afternoon I would always go down to the Java Hut, and have a coffee and sit on the couch, and whatever. Listen to the random gay guys come in and talk about how hungover they were and their escapades of the night before. It was always a nice, relaxing thing. Not very crowded on a Sunday. The last couple months it’s gotten very crowded on a Sunday morning, but for the past couple years it wasn’t.

So Java Hut has pretty much been my favorite coffee place in Worcester, because they have ceramic cups and a couch. I know that you’ve always liked Java Hut.

B: Yeah.

P: Mostly because you thought that the waitresses were cute.

B: Right.

P: But they’re too young for you man.

B: Just because they’re too young for me, doesn’t mean I’m dead.

P: Very true. Speaking of the sad passage of time, we just watched a movie with Anthony Hopkins that turns out to be one of your favorite movies.

B: “Remains of the Day.”

P: Or, as you like to call it . . .

B: “Remains of the Day.”

P: “The Day Remains the Same.” It’s interesting that it’s one of your favorite movies. I don’t associate you with Merchant-Ivory.

B: Plus it’s an English film, is another reason why I’m into it.

P: You know, I’ve learned that a good friend of ours, a doctor, is also into this movie. Which was surprising to me. Besides it being a British film, what appeals to you about “Remains of the Day”?

B: I decided to watch it one time, I think it was on HBO2, and it turned out to be sad, not really depressing, but I thought overall it was pretty good.

P: I thought it was fantastic. I’d never seen it before, and I was impressed.

Let the record show that I’m now going to tip a cup of coffee in memory of Java Hut. Any last words?

B: No, that’s it.

PIEANDCOFFEE: It’s time for the hammer of judgement to smite the co-op.

BRUCE: This episode . . . gonna introduce this episode, it’s called Pie and Coffee. And we’re here to interview about the Artichoke and the experience that went on there yesterday.

PIE: So they had free coffee yesterday.

BRUCE: They did.

PIE: They usually don’t have pre-made coffee. I think they just have the beans.

What did you think of the coffee?

BRUCE: It was very good, but it was very strong.

PIE: You don’t like it so strong?

BRUCE: I love it strong.

PIE: What do you think of the ambience of the Artichoke?

BRUCE: Wha–the who?

PIE: What do you think about the whole vibe of the place?

BRUCE: Well yesterday was pretty different. It’s not like that all the time. I mean, very few people go in there.

PIE: They haven’t had very much food recently, either. They’ve been a little understocked. Last week at a City Council election forum, Barbara Haller was trumpeting her association with the co-op, and I wanted somebody to ask her, “Why don’t you have that place have some food, then?”

BRUCE: When you think of the Artichoke, most people don’t really know what the Artichoke is. To some people, they think it’s some kind of rubbery pineapple.

PIE: What is it?

BRUCE: It’s really a co-op, but they named it Artichoke. I’m surprised they don’t have any artichokes there!

PIE: They have avocados there. You ever eat those?

BRUCE: No.

PIE: I’m a big avocado fan.

BRUCE: Yesterday…

PIE: One of the customers yesterday recognized you. She said, “What do they call you? The Snow Ghost?”

BRUCE: And she asked you, “Don’t you pretend to be the Snow Ghost?”

PIE: And I said, “Of course I don’t pretend to be the Snow Ghost!”

BRUCE: I persuaded the woman, I said, “I am the Snow Ghost. You can tell, because I’m the handsome, funny one.” She just kinda laughed.

PIE: Well, they were shooting an episode of Worcester Love there. You ever see any of these episodes on the Internet? This is like a thing where Andrea Ajemian and Kaz Gamble have been putting together these little videos. They’ve been finding someone to sponsor each one, and they’re putting them up on YouTube. I’ve enjoyed them. And they were filming yesterday. People were coming in out of the street to goof around in front of the cameras. It was a good vibe.

BRUCE: She interviewed me a little, but I don’t know what she made of it. She smiled a lot after she talked to us some more. I must have the way of words when it comes to women.

PIE: I think so. I like the Artichoke a lot, but . . . .

I’ll lay out my Two Point Plan for the Artichoke co-op. Are you ready?

Point One is that they should denote every item that’s either locally grown, Fair Trade, or organic. One possibility is they could use a star system. You could give something a gold star if it was organic, a red star if it was locally grown, and a green star if it was Fair Trade. To whatever the Artichoke’s specifications were. So if somebody was farming organic, but wasn’t certified, the Artichoke could say, “We think this is organic.” It would be great if by every item were these stars.

And I would say to them to reconsider carrying anything that didn’t have these stars, unless they had a great price, like the bulk tofu.

Point Two is that they should just pick like the top 20 items, and say, “We’re always going to have these in stock.” One problem with the Artichoke is you go down there, and what you’re looking for is out of stock. They obviously don’t have a lot of money to invest in warehousing things. But it would be great if they could commit to 10 or 20 items.

BRUCE: Like coffee would be one of them.

PIE: I think the coffee they have is Dean’s Beans.

BRUCE: I think those beans turned into some hot brew. You had to bean there!

Are you able to help the South Bend Catholic Worker with a donation?

They need the following items:

• Coffee
• T-shirts
• Small canisters of shaving cream
• Dish soap
• Laundry soap
• Socks
• Trash bags (13 gal and 30 gal)

I think they could also use a copy of the Joy of Cooking.

You can bring donations to their drop-in center, “Our Lady of the Road,” 744 South Main Street in South Bend, Indiana, Friday and Saturday mornings. If you’d like to volunteer at Our Lady of the Road, please stop by and say hello.

Your generous donation will keep Al fully caffeinated.

Pie and Coffee: On our last Community Show, we were complaining that it’s hard to get Fair Trade coffee at a coffee shop in Worcester. In South Bend, though, it’s gotten a lot easier.

Brenna, how’s it going?

Brenna Cussen: Great, thanks. How are you, Mike?

P: Pretty good. Thanks for sitting through all this nonsense so that you could be on the show.

Brenna: I’m happy, I’m very flattered that I got invited to be on the Bruce Russell show . . . Snow Ghost show.

Bruce: If we’re going to do this, let’s get things right!

P: So Brenna, I wanted to ask you about the Chicory Cafe in downtown South Bend.

Brenna: Sure.

P: They have Fair Trade coffee!

Brenna: They do! They made the transition slowly. Well, they had both options of Fair Trade and non-Fair Trade. And the Fair Trade was a little bit more expensive. I’d say maybe 15 cents more a cup. But just the other day, they made the complete switchover. And now they only serve Fair Trade coffee.

P: And it’s pretty cool. It’s actually a pretty interesting place, because it’s billed as “A French Quarter Style Coffee House.” So it’s like a New Orleans-type coffee shop. It’s at the corner of Jefferson and Michigan in downtown South Bend.

Brenna: Yes. The owners are a married couple. I know the wife somewhat well, Heather. And she would love to have opened a coffee shop in New Orleans, actually, but her husband was not interested in moving down there, so what they did was just open a coffee shop that resembles New Orleans as much as it can. And they sell food from New Orleans. Chicory coffee, which is a popular item down in New Orleans. I had never heard of it until they opened, so they also sell chicory coffee. They sell what are called “po’ boys,” sandwiches.

P: And they also have muffaletta on here, all kinds of stuff like that.

Brenna: And they have a great chalkboard on the wall of the cafe, where you can write whatever quotes you want. Louis Armstrong quotes, or philosophical quotes, or Snow Ghost quotes. Whatever quotes you want, you can just write up on the board.

P: Bruce, do you think that there’s an appropriate Snow Ghost quote about New Orleans or Fair Trade coffee that we could write on that board there?

Bruce: I have some feedback about this. The other day, me and Dave went to Big Y, over across the street from Park Avenue, and he was looking for the Newman’s coffee. Cause of all the coffee there—a lot of it was organic, but that doesn’t mean Fair Trade. Able to get the Fair Trade coffee you have to actually look for the symbol on the coffee that says Fair Trade on it. And Newman’s is one that has the Fair Trade on it. If it’s organic, doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s Fair Trade. Because Fair Trade is actually the better thing to go for, and the reason why I say that is that they get a fair price for the Fair Trade coffee. And they get a better wage for the Fair Trade coffee than you would the other coffee.

P: I’m very impressed that there’s a place in South Bend that’s all Fair Trade. Because Worcester is not quite twice as big as South Bend, but it has a lot more of the urban amenities than South Bend. It’s just amazing that South Bend—hopefully that this will work out long-term economically.

Bruce: The funny thing is that, when I went to Minnesota, like 2006, a lot of places we went to were all Fair Trade.

Brenna: Minnesota’s a pretty progressive state.

Bruce: So there’s a bigger call for it down there, as opposed to being in Worcester. And the other thing I think is the fact that a lot of people up here, they’re just going to buy the first cup of coffee thy see, and they’re not going to care if it had black tar in it, or black oil in it, they’re just going to buy the cup of coffee they need for their addiction.

P: That’s true.

Brenna: They’ll buy whatever’s accessible to them.

Bruce: There’s one thing I’ll tell you about Fair Trade. If you’re gonna buy Fair Trade, I mean, let’s be fair about this!

In this interview, we also complain about the local press and discuss mastery.

Pie and Coffee: So Bruce, you had your record release party at Pizza Hut the other day.

Bruce: That I did.

P: What inspired you to choose Pizza Hut as a venue?

B: It’s the only place that I’m really that familiar with.

P: How was it as a place for a record release?

B: As far as wrecking is concerned, I guess having a record release party there was pretty good!

P: And not only did most of the people there have pizza, but many of the people there had coffee, which was surprising to me.

B: I didn’t realize they had coffee there, but you learn something new every day.

P: How was the coffee?

B: Very good.

P: Well, that’s more than I would expect from Pizza Hut.

B: Wasn’t burnt, so, I mean . . . .

P: So it had that advantage. Do you think it’s worth going to Pizza Hut just for the coffee?

B: No, I don’t think so.

P: What kind of pizza did you have there?

B: Ah, I think the pizza I had was what’s in front of me. It was the cheese, and, ah, mushroom and black olive.

P: Very good.

B: Can I have some cheese please?

P: A good vegetarian pizza. I used to be big into pepperoni back in the day, back when I was a pizza eater. You have any other comments about Pizza Hut and the coffee there?

B: Overall, it went pretty good. I did kind of expect a little more enthusiasm.

P: Well, I mean, it was kinda low-key. Some of the people there were people who had their apartment catch fire the night before.

B: Oh really?

P: Yeah, there was an article in the paper. It was a weird article. They didn’t take it very seriously that their apartment caught fire, and they were giving the reporter a little bit of a hard time, and of course it’s the reporter’s decision whether to allow that to be part of the story, but the reporter did allow that to be part of the story, which I thought was a good and interesting choice.

It was a notable story especially because it was the only time I saw in the Telegram the phrase “karma shield.”

Basically, something caught fire in their house, like a lamp, and the fire started, and then it melted the solder on one of the water pipes, and the pipe started spraying water everywhere, which controlled the spread of the fire.

B: Ah.

P: And their fire detector’s battery was dead. So they didn’t even know that there was even a fire. They were very lucky this thing with the pipe happened, or the fire might have kept them from being able to escape, and they might have all died of smoke inhalation or been burned alive.

B: Ah.

P: So I know that that might have cut down on some peoples’ evergy level, having woken up in the middle of the night to escape a fire. [Ed. note: They actually slept through the fire.]

B: I understand that.

P: My feeling is that a bunch of adults hanging out at Pizza Hut is going to be a low-key thing. Except for that moment when those two brought their dog in, and ran around carrying their dog until the waitresses started chasing them. That was kind of entertaining.

B: I mean it’s like, half the stuff that the reporters put in the paper is not true anyways. It’s like when Channel 3 reported about the Mustard Seed closing down for a week, they basically called everybody there addicts. Not everyone there is an addict or has alcohol problems.

P: Well, this is true. And there have been Telegram articles that quoted me correctly, but literally half the time I’ve been quoted in the Telegram, it has not only been a misquote, but a misquote that distorted the whole meaning of what I was saying. So it’s very frustrating to deal with that paper.

I thought this was actually a good article. I would say, “Kudos to the guy who wrote this article.”

B: The reporter wants to put what he wants to put in the newspaper, so they can sell newspapers.

P: I don’t know to what extent that drives the reporters. I think to a certain extent it’s not the reporters trying to manipulate the facts, it’s the reporters not being that excited about doing a good job of reporting.

B: I don’t know much about reporting, but I do know for a fact: If you’re going to be a reporter, get your story right. Because by writing a story that isn’t true, it’s going to damage a lot of people. It’s their job to get the facts down, not to expose peoples’ lives.

P: Y’know, I’m reading this book by George Leonard called Mastery. And I know that you’re often called “The Master” or “The Master of Originality.”

B: I got a new answering machine message.

P: What’s it say?

B: Call it and find out.

P: Okay, I will call it and find out. I just want to say, though, he has a section called “The Five Master Keys.” Which are: Key 1, Instruction; Key 2, Patience; Key 3, Surrender; Key 4, Intentionality; and Key 5, The Edge. I wondered if you have like five steps towards being The Master.

B: Yeah, “Live Life Hardcore,” for one. And just give something a big kick in the gut. The third one, I would have to say, is that “Whatever I am creating, or anybody’s creating, aspire to give that something a big kick in the gut.”

P: So you only really have a three-step program of mastery.

B: And “Imagery” is part of it too.

P: “Imagery” would be number four. Like, “Imagine yourself giving something a kick in the gut”?

B: Yeah.

P: So you have a four-step program.

B: Yeah, do this. No drugs, no alcohol, and no tobacco.

P: So you have a five step program.

B: Yeah, and don’t live life as a bum. Live a life as a hermit, a wizard. And theoretically speaking . . . the end.

Bruce: And we finally did it.

P: And you feel a sense of accomplishment?

B: Oh yeah. The first thing I noticed when I walked in there, the funny thing about it is like, and this goes back way before, it’s like every time I used to do errands for Joe, Elwood Adams and stuff like that—

P: —back when you used to run errands at Java Joe’s?

B: Yeah. And I would go by there or, it goes back even farther than that. I have to back up a little bit. I used to go to Al Bum’s a lot, up on Highland Street, and I used to go by that coffee place a lot, the Courtyard. And I never found an apparition to go in there until . . . .

P: Until just now.

B: Until just now. And I was pleasant when I walked in the door. From the size of the cafe they got, and it seemed like they have other things besides coffee in there, they got a cooler of juice and soda, and a few things you can eat, order to eat and stuff.

P: I thought they had very nice chairs and tables.

B: Yeah they did, that too, I noticed that too.

P: And a lot of magazines.

B: Yeah they have a few magazines, too. Anyway, the first thing that caught my eye is that the coffee was Newport’s, which is like Seattle’s Best I guess.

P: It’s connected to Seattle’s Best?

B: Yeah. And anyways, they had some good flavors in the coffee they had there. I thought, “This can’t be it! I’m actually finding a coffee that actually Satan made himself!” I’m reading, “From Devil’s Hill.” And I read it once again, and it says, “From Castle Hill.”

P: What?

B: I’m describing about the coffee that I saw.

P: Start over again.

B: I saw this coffee down below in front of me and I thought it said, “Made By Satan,” because it said “On Devil’s Hill,” because that’s what I was reading until I got closer and saw it said “Castle Hill.”

P: Oh, okay.

B: But that coffee was pretty good. I’d like to go back there pretty soon and try one of their entrees or foods or something like that.

P: I never had the Newport coffee before, that I remember. It was okay. Maybe because it was getting toward the middle of the afternoon, it didn’t taste like the freshest coffee. But it wasn’t horrible, and the cafe was very, very cute inside. So I think I would also consider going back and trying it again.

B: Would you recommend that place to somebody else?

P: Well, I don’t know. Y’know, usually when we review these places, we’ve gone to them a couple times. This is one of the ones we’ve only gone to one time.